71

Puzzle Grinch
(source: sontag.ca)

Part I

This layout can be done quite simply with 2 HTML tables, one nested inside the other, or even with a single table.

It can also be done with CSS, though it might involve a little more thinking.

This may not be a real world layout, but I have seen pages that are similar. Consider this a riddle; an exercise to buff up your CSS skills.

To make things a little more interesting, I have framed the question in a little 2 part web page called The Challenge. We will examine the code and the question: Layout with tables or CSS?, side-by-side, blow-by-blow, as our two opponents battle it out for code supremacy.

Part I lays out how The Challenge came to be. I hope you enjoy.

Part II is The Decision. You might be surprised.


Part II

I was amazed at how quickly really good answers appeared mere minutes after I posted. It was a humbling experience. I have no desire to compete in time trials with you.

BUT, all that being said, upon close examination of the solutions offered, I came to realize that none of the CSS solutions (including my own at the time) worked as well as either of the table solutions offered. The Challenge was all about CSS being better than tables for any layout solution.

So I added 3 new rules (remember, one of the rules is that the rules can be changed). This annoyed some people. So then I added some colorful explanations about why the rules were changed. I think this annoyed them even more.

  1. Our garden is to have a fence around it; something to set it apart from whatever dreary surroundings it may find itself in; and not too expensive, but easy to keep clean. So I want a 1 pixel black border around the garden
  2. Inhabitants of each garden plot (the characters) must be either black or white, depending on which shows them the best in their garden. Also they are all of cursive descent. There are no italics amoung them. ;-)
  3. The garden is relocatable, that is, I can have this garden, anywhere on the page (no absolute positioning).

This is what the final output is to look like (background color optional):

alt text
(source: sontag.ca)

My apologies for the capricious and last minute rule changes. I had it wrong. The inhabitants of each garden plot are artisans, hand crafted specialists. They are descendants of the cursive family, and owe their sense of style to the italics.

The garden has to be relocatable because both kinds of gardens (table and CSS) need to coexist on the same page. I may be wrong to say that position:absolute rules are not allowed. If you can get them to work in this context, then more power to you. They will certainly be accepted.

I asked for a fence around the plot because each garden type is going to be planted in a countryside with an orange background very similar to the color of the some of the flowers we grow.

I live in Holland now, and the Tulip season is fast approaching. If you fly over Holland in the next few weeks, and it's a clear day (kind of rare here) the landscape below you will look rather similar to this silly exercise.

I'm not crazy about orange but I do like and admire the Dutch, so that is why we have an orange background, a tribute to my host country. :-)


Part III

I have posted Ted's table answer from The Challenge below along with this image

alt text
(source: sontag.ca)

because the occupants can be easily added to the garden plots without touching the CSS rules - everything is automatically centered.

Can you do this with CSS? Can you chop down the mightiest tree in the forest with... a herring?


Update: Charlie's answer is here.

Glorfindel
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Diogenes
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  • I don't see why you would want to nest 2 tables for this, it can be done in one. – Jacco Mar 11 '09 at 23:07
  • Are the heights and widths all fixed? – alex Mar 11 '09 at 23:09
  • Am I right in thinking the aim is to create the most concise markup possible? – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 00:49
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    Do we have to include the Dr Suess character? – Andrew Shepherd Mar 12 '09 at 01:47
  • The example on the challenge page has the font in italic, but the image above doesn't, which is correct? – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 02:56
  • Jacco - Don't need 2 tables? Though I'm not from Missouri, I can still say show me! – Diogenes Mar 12 '09 at 19:18
  • Alex - Yes - heights and widths are fixed - for now! – Diogenes Mar 12 '09 at 19:19
  • Sam - One of the objectives is brevity, but another is expression of intent. Ergo #w,#o,#n is brief, but cryptic. OTOH, #white, #orange, #navy wins more points for expression of intent, than it loses for lack of brevity ;-) – Diogenes Mar 12 '09 at 19:58
  • Andrew - No the Dr. Suess character is optional, but it's always good for style points! – Diogenes Mar 12 '09 at 20:00
  • Sam - No the font is not italic, it is hand writing on a napkin. You have a point though. So I am making up a new rule. – Diogenes Mar 12 '09 at 20:02
  • What are you up to? Why those nick-nack modifications? – Gumbo Mar 13 '09 at 00:01
  • Nick-nack paddy-whack, throw a dog a bone, this old man ain't goin' home – Diogenes Mar 13 '09 at 09:53
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    Wow... Post a question, get several great solutions, modify the question, get more feedback, modify it again, get more input, then post your own solution and accept that. Are you just trying to drum up traffic for your site? – Prestaul Mar 15 '09 at 01:26
  • Ah please Prestaul - you're being tough on me. It was an experiment to produce a side-by-side comparison of CSS vs Tables, where the CSS had to do everything the table layout did. Really, I did not come up with my answer until after I posted the question. – Diogenes Mar 15 '09 at 04:22
  • The rule changes were something that should have of been included in the first post, but I was in uncharted waters myself. I learned a few things here and so did others. That's what SO is all about. – Diogenes Mar 15 '09 at 04:26
  • that would be too easy if it was XAML ;) – 0xFF Sep 17 '09 at 22:39

12 Answers12

37

Update: Final edit. Switched to STRICT DTD, removed italic to match the image in the question, and reverted back to full colour names for ids to show intent as per OPs comment on question, and sorted the main column of id names in the css into the order they appear in the html.

I also opted not to reused the outer div as the white 7 square (it didn't have it's own div in previous edits), as it wouldn't have been practical if you wanted to use the layout, and felt a little like cheating (although from a brevity/pixel perfect standpoint I liked the cheekiness of it).

View here: http://jsbin.com/efidi
Edit here: http://jsbin.com/efidi/edit
Validates as XHTML strict

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
  "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
<head><title>The Challenge</title>
<style type="text/css">
div     { text-align: center; width:175px; height:175px; line-height: 35px;}
div div {         float:left; width: 35px; height: 35px;}
#orange, #maroon,
#blue  , #green  {float:right;}

#orange, #silver {background-color:silver;  width:140px;}
#navy  , #maroon {background-color:maroon; height:140px; line-height:140px;}
         #navy   {background-color:navy  ;}
#green , #red    {background-color:red   ;  width: 70px;}
#yellow, #blue   {background-color:blue  ; height: 70px; line-height: 70px;}
         #yellow {background-color:yellow;}
         #white  {background-color:white ;}
         #green  {background-color:green ;}
         #orange {background-color:orange;}
</style> 
</head> 
<body> 
  <div> 
    <div id="silver">1</div> 
    <div id="maroon">2</div> 
    <div id="navy"  >3</div> 
    <div id="red"   >4</div> 
    <div id="blue"  >5</div> 
    <div id="yellow">6</div> 
    <div id="white" >7</div>
    <div id="green" >8</div> 
    <div id="orange">9</div> 
  </div>
</body></html>

Aside: I would perhaps put a little more whitespace in if I could, but this is at the limit before the code blocks here on SO starts getting scrollbars and I opted to have it all appear on screen.

Note: I borrowed the line-height fix from Tyson (who was first to get a correctly rendering answer).

Community
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Sam Hasler
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  • This solution works in IE 5.5, IE7, and Firefox 3. It just needs the numbers and it's perfect. – attack Mar 11 '09 at 23:41
  • Minified my answer and by my count it's 180 characters less than the table solution: 1042 (table) to 858 (mine) characters not counting body/head/style tags. – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 04:07
  • You forgot the right font “Comic Sans MS” and blue text color if you really want a pixel perfect solution. ;) – Gumbo Mar 12 '09 at 09:57
  • It does NOT render correctly in IE6.SP1 on Win2k. (but what does?) – Jacco Mar 12 '09 at 10:47
  • In the image above the text is black and non-italic, so I've decided to ignore the font now. – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 11:38
  • Sam, the rules specify xhtml STRICT, not Transitional... You're about to save your self 12 more characters! – Prestaul Mar 12 '09 at 14:14
  • @Prestaul: thanks for pointing that out. Totally overlooked that. – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 21:18
  • I tried this but I didn't get the smug martian next to it! :p – Chetan S Mar 13 '09 at 01:28
  • Blast, rule change, looks like that's not going to be my final edit. – Sam Hasler Mar 13 '09 at 14:01
  • here's a version that obeys all the new rules http://jsbin.com/oqade/edit but I haven't been able to meet Ted's challenge. The only way to have extra characters is to manually set the height of the content in the css: http://jsbin.com/ohoci/edit but I don't think that's an acceptable solution. – Sam Hasler Mar 13 '09 at 18:59
  • Hey Sam, special thanks to you. LOL -I only got one vote for "Charlie's" answer, and I have no way of proving this, but my suspicions are it may have been you ;-) – Diogenes Mar 25 '09 at 07:53
  • It doesn't validate… you're missing the `type` attribute of two ` – alexia Mar 01 '11 at 21:52
  • @Nyuszika7H, those scripts have been added by jsbin. They weren't there when I posted my answer. – Sam Hasler Mar 02 '11 at 14:28
18

Here are three solutions.

The markup:

<div id="outer">
    <div id="a1">1</div>
    <div id="a2">2</div>
    <div id="a3">3</div>
    <div id="a4">4</div>
    <div id="a5">5</div>
    <div id="a6">6</div>
    <div id="a7">7</div>
    <div id="a8">8</div>
    <div id="a9">9</div>
</div>

The basic stylesheet (dimensions and color):

#outer {
    width: 20em;
    height: 20em;
}
#a1 {
    background-color: #C0C0C0;
    width: 80%;
    height: 20%;
}
#a2 {
    background-color: #800000;
    width: 20%;
    height: 80%;
}
#a3 {
    background-color: #000080;
    width: 20%;
    height: 80%;
}
#a4 {
    background-color: #FF0000;
    width: 40%;
    height: 20%;
}
#a5 {
    background-color: #0000FF;
    width: 20%;
    height: 40%;
}
#a6 {
    background-color: #FFFF00;
    width: 20%;
    height: 40%;
}
#a7 {
    background-color: #FFFFFF;
    width: 20%;
    height: 20%;
}
#a8 {
    background-color: #008000;
    width: 40%;
    height: 20%;
}
#a9 {
    background-color: #FFA500;
    height: 20%;
    width: 80%;
}

And now the positioning:

  • Using float:

    #a1 {
        float: left;
    }
    #a2 {
        float: right;
    }
    #a3 {
        float: left;
    }
    #a4 {
        float: left;
    }
    #a5 {
        float: right;
    }
    #a6 {
        float: left;
    }
    #a7 {
        float: left;
    }
    #a8 {
        float: right;
    }
    #a9 {
        float: right;
    }
    
  • Using position:

    #outer {
        position: relative;
    }
    #outer div {
        position: absolute;
    }
    #a1 {
        top: 0;
        left: 0;
    }
    #a2 {
        top: 0;
        right: 0;
    }
    #a3 {
        top: 20%;
        left: 0;
    }
    #a4 {
        top: 20%;
        left: 20%;
    }
    #a5 {
        top: 20%;
        right: 20%;
    }
    #a6 {
        top: 40%;
        left: 20%;
    }
    #a7 {
        top: 40%;
        left: 40%;
    }
    #a8 {
        bottom: 20%;
        right: 20%;
    }
    #a9 {
        bottom: 0;
        right: 0;
    }
    
  • Using margin:

    #a1 {
    }
    #a2 {
        margin: -20% -80% 0 80%;
    }
    #a3 {
        margin: -60% 0 0 0;
    }
    #a4 {
        margin: -80% -20% 0 20%;
    }
    #a5 {
        margin: -20% -60% 0 60%;
    }
    #a6 {
        margin: -20% -20% 0 20%;
    }
    #a7 {
        margin: -40% -40% 0 40%;
    }
    #a8 {
        margin: 0 -40% 0 40%;
    }
    #a9 {
        margin: 0 -20% 0 20%;
    }
    
Gumbo
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17

Here you go - less lines than any misuse of table tags can provide:

<img
    src="http://sontag.ca/TheChallenge/tiles.gif"
    alt="nine assorted coloured rectangles"
/>

:P

Peter Boughton
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13

This matches your table example exactly, including the vertically and horizontally centered text (which no one else has done so far).

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
<head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>

    <title>Boxy Boxes in a Box</title>

    <style type="text/css" media="screen">
        #container {position: relative; margin: 100px auto; height: 175px; width: 175px; font-style: italic; }

        .box {width: 35px; height: 35px; position: absolute; text-align: center; line-height: 35px;}

        #box_1 {top: 0; left: 0; width: 140px; background-color: silver;}
        #box_2 {top: 0; right: 0; height: 140px; background-color: maroon; line-height: 140px;}
        #box_3 {top: 35px; left: 0; height: 140px; background-color: navy; line-height: 140px;}
        #box_4 {top: 35px; left: 35px; width: 70px; background-color: red;}
        #box_5 {top: 35px; right: 35px; height: 70px; background-color: blue; line-height: 70px;}
        #box_6 {top: 70px; left: 35px; height: 70px; background-color: yellow; line-height: 70px;}
        #box_7 {top: 70px; left: 70px; background-color: white;}
        #box_8 {bottom: 35px; right: 35px; width: 70px; background-color: green;}
        #box_9 {bottom: 0; right: 0; width: 140px; background-color: orange;}
    </style>
</head>

<body>
    <div id="container">
        <div id="box_1" class="box">1</div>
        <div id="box_2" class="box">2</div>
        <div id="box_3" class="box">3</div>
        <div id="box_4" class="box">4</div>
        <div id="box_5" class="box">5</div>
        <div id="box_6" class="box">6</div>
        <div id="box_7" class="box">7</div>
        <div id="box_8" class="box">8</div>
        <div id="box_9" class="box">9</div>
    </div>
</body>
</html>
Tyson
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  • Well done, you got there first. I've borrowed some ideas for my own answer. I've tried to make mine as concise as I can. – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 00:58
  • (In case you've moved on and haven't noticed the updates to the question) are you going to update to follow the new rules? – Sam Hasler Mar 13 '09 at 14:34
  • Eh, not really. I solved it as originally stated. I'm not going to blow 10 hours catering to random new rules every few hours. :) Your solution is better, anyways. – Tyson Mar 13 '09 at 22:28
  • Sorry about the new rules but they are really not random. I would like to put the table solution and css solution side-by-side on the same web page. I did try your code, looks great, but the position:absolute gave me problems. If I missed something, let me know. – Diogenes Mar 13 '09 at 23:28
4

As long as the widths and heights are constant, one can always use absolute positioning to get the same effect. This should be obvious enough, so that I don't have to type it out (it's late here and I'm lazy :P)

Vilx-
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4

I took a slightly different approach than the "id everything" solutions I've seen so far. This comes in less than 100 chars more than the table based solution.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
 "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
<head>
<title>The Challenge</title>
<style type="text/css">
div {
    position:absolute;
    width:35px;
    height:35px;
    text-align:center;
    line-height:35px
}

.spiral { width:175px; height:175px }

.t { top:0 }
.l { left:0 }
.r { right:0 }
.b { bottom:0 }
.w { width:140px }
.h { height:140px; line-height:140px }
.c {
    top:35px;
    left:35px;
    width:105px;
    height:105px
}

.c .w { width:70px }
.c .h { height:70px; line-height: 70px }
.c .c { width:35px; height: 35px }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<div class="spiral">
    <div class="t l w" style="background-color:silver">1</div>
    <div class="t r h" style="background-color:maroon">2</div>
    <div class="b l h" style="background-color:navy">3</div>
    <div class="c">
        <div class="t l w" style="background-color:red">4</div>
        <div class="t r h" style="background-color:blue">5</div>
        <div class="b l h" style="background-color:yellow">6</div>
        <div class="c">7</div>
        <div class="b r w" style="background-color:green">8</div>
    </div>
    <div class="b r w" style="background-color:orange">9</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Edit: Based on your modifications I'm posting a slightly more verbose but hopefully clearer solution that adds a black border, sets some text to white, and does not absolutely position the "garden".

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
 "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
<head>
<title>The Challenge</title>
<style type="text/css">
div {
    position:absolute;
    width:35px;
    height:35px;
    text-align:center;
    line-height:35px
}

div.spiral {
    position:relative;
    width:175px;
    height:175px;
    border: 1px solid #000
}

.top { top:0 }
.left { left:0 }
.right { right:0 }
.bottom { bottom:0 }
.wide { width:140px }
.tall { height:140px; line-height:140px }
.center {
    top:35px;
    left:35px;
    width:105px;
    height:105px
}

.center .wide { width:70px }
.center .tall { height:70px; line-height: 70px }
.center .center { width:35px; height: 35px }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<div class="spiral">
    <div class="top left wide" style="background-color:silver">1</div>
    <div class="top right tall" style="background-color:maroon">2</div>
    <div class="bottom left tall" style="background-color:navy;color:#fff">3</div>
    <div class="center">
        <div class="top left wide" style="background-color:red">4</div>
        <div class="top right tall" style="background-color:blue">5</div>
        <div class="bottom left tall" style="background-color:yellow">6</div>
        <div class="center">7</div>
        <div class="bottom right wide" style="background-color:green">8</div>
    </div>
    <div class="bottom right wide" style="background-color:orange">9</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
Prestaul
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  • Minified my own answer and by my count it's 180 characters less than the table solution: 1042 (table) to 858 (mine) characters not counting body/head/style tags. – Sam Hasler Mar 12 '09 at 02:53
  • The floating solution is very elegant and compact, nice work Sam. I was going for something more in the spirit of css. This solution could be used to put multiple "tiles" on the same page without duplicating the css and I'm hoping that it is readable and easy to comprehend. – Prestaul Mar 12 '09 at 14:04
  • I like your JSBin link, so I've put a version of my code with two tiles out there if anyone wants to play with it: http://jsbin.com/avive – Prestaul Mar 12 '09 at 14:20
  • This is an interesting approach too, though I am having a little difficulty following it. Can you change your class names to something that better expresses intent? No penalty for the few extra characters but big points if the class names express intent and help in understanding. – Diogenes Mar 12 '09 at 20:22
  • Ok... I've update with a new version that has clearer class names and fulfills your other new requests. New version here: http://jsbin.com/uzaba – Prestaul Mar 13 '09 at 08:02
  • you need 3, 5 & 8 in white too. I'm not having any joy getting multiple characters to appear as per Ted's Table Layout. I'm wondering if there's another way to vertically center the text other than using line-height. – Sam Hasler Mar 13 '09 at 13:58
  • There are ways to get the cells to vertically align and still be content agnostic, but it isn't an easy undertaking in css unless you use display:cell-table and vertical-align. (Is that cheating?) Unfortunately cell-table is not supported in IE unless the element is a TD or TH... – Prestaul Mar 13 '09 at 16:39
  • I think that I'm done chasing Diogenes' whims. It should be a simple task to change the text color of the other plots. I posted this after he said "characters must be either black or white, depending on which shows them the best in their garden"... Pretty subjective. I preferred only one white. – Prestaul Mar 13 '09 at 16:42
4

Single table solution.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
    <head>
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />
        <meta http-equiv="Content-language" content="en" />
        <title>The Challenge</title>
    </head>
    <body>

        <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" summary="">
            <tr>
                <td colspan="4" height="35" align="center" bgcolor="silver"><i>1</i></td>
                <td rowspan="4" width="35" align="center" bgcolor="maroon"><i>2</i></td>
                <td rowspan="5" valign="bottom"><img src="http://sontag.ca/gif/grinch.gif" width="41" height="122" alt="Dr. Suess's Grinch"/></td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td rowspan="4" width="35" align="center" bgcolor="navy"><i>3</i></td>
                <td colspan="2" height="35" align="center" bgcolor="red"><i>4</i></td>
                <td rowspan="2" width="35" align="center" bgcolor="blue"><i>5</i></td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td rowspan="2" width="35" align="center" bgcolor="yellow"><i>6</i></td>
                <td width="35" height="35" align="center"><i>7</i></td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td colspan="2" height="35" align="center" bgcolor="green"><i>8</i></td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td colspan="4" height="35" align="center" bgcolor="orange"><i>9</i></td>
            </tr>
        </table>

    </body>
</html>

It is valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional and I've included Dr. Suess character :)

By stripping Dr. Suess character, the <?xml declaration, the meta-tags and the summary attribute you could cut it down to 929 characters and still be valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional.

Edit

As requested, XHTML 1.0 Strict

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
    <head>
        <title>The Challenge</title>
        <style type="text/css">
            BODY {background: orange}
            #garden {border: 1px solid black; color: black}
            #garden TD {
                font: italic 100% 'Comic Sans MS', cursive;
                height: 35px;
                padding: 0;
                text-align: center;
                width: 35px
            }
            #c1 {background: silver}
            #c2 {background: maroon; color: white}
            #c3 {background: navy;   color: white}
            #c4 {background: red}
            #c5 {background: blue;   color: white}
            #c6 {background: yellow}
            #c7 {background: white}
            #c8 {background: green;  color: white}
            #c9 {background: orange}
        </style>
    </head>
    <body>

        <table id="garden" cellspacing="0">
            <tr>
                <td id="c1" colspan="4">1</td>
                <td id="c2" rowspan="4">2</td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td id="c3" rowspan="4">3</td>
                <td id="c4" colspan="2">4</td>
                <td id="c5" rowspan="2">5</td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td id="c6" rowspan="2">6</td>
                <td id="c7">7</td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td id="c8" colspan="2">8</td>
            </tr><tr>
                <td id="c9" colspan="4">9</td>
            </tr>
        </table>

    </body>
</html>

970 non-whitespace characters, orange background, Dr. Suess's Grinch removed.

miken32
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Jacco
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  • height, width and align attributes are not valid in XHTML. You need to specify these as separate CSS rules. It'll be a good exercise. See Ted's Table answer for tips on this. – Diogenes Mar 13 '09 at 10:02
  • I'm curious about a what single table solution might reduce to when done as XHTML strict. – Diogenes Mar 13 '09 at 10:05
  • Width and Height attributes are valid in Transitional. This one is not meant to be a solutions to your chalenge, but rather a single table example. That is why I did not use _any_ css. Others are free to work it into strict :) – Jacco Mar 13 '09 at 10:06
  • @Jacco - hey your new version cleaned up real good! So I concede to you on the table solution - yours is better. But I somehow think neither of our table solutions are going to win any votes here ;-) – Diogenes Mar 14 '09 at 14:12
  • The 'right' solution depends entirely on the nature of the data to be displayed, is it tabular or not. (if it is visual only, Peter Boughton solutions is hard to beat) – Jacco Mar 14 '09 at 16:11
4

No one here has given a table solution yet, and The Challenge is all about comparing CSS layouts to Table based layouts in a controlled (and heavily biased) scenario.

So here is Ted's Table Layout solution and his challenge...

"With my table based solution, it is very easy to add new inhabitants to the garden plots by very simple additions to the HTML markup only! All inhabitants are automatically centered and spaced in a pleasing style. For example:"

alt text
(source: sontag.ca)
alt text
(source: sontag.ca)

"As far as I can tell, no CSS based solutions here can accomodate new inhabitants without extensive renovations to the CSS rules."

"Better bring lots of money boys, I'm feeling really hungry and thirsty now."

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>Terrible Ted's Table Layout</title>
<style type="text/css">

#master TD { text-align: center }
#master { 
  border: 1px solid black;
  font: italic 100%/200% 'Comic Sans MS', cursive; 
}
#silver { background-color:silver }
#maroon { background-color: maroon;  color:white }
#navy { background-color:navy;  color:white }
#red { background-color: red }
#blue { background-color:blue;  color:white }
#yellow { background-color: yellow }
#green { background-color:green;  color:white }
#orange { background-color:orange }
#white { background-color:white }

#silver, #red, #green, #orange, #white { height: 35px }
#maroon, #navy, #blue, #yellow, #white { width: 35px }

</style>
</head>
<body style="background-color:#ffb600">

<table id="master" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" 
  summary="layoutByTable"><tr>
    <td id="silver" colspan="2" > 1 </td> 
    <td id="maroon" rowspan="2" > 2 </td>
  </tr><tr>
  <td id="navy" rowspan="2" > 3 </td>
  <td>
    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" 
      summary="inner"><tr>
        <td id="red" colspan="2" > 4 </td>
        <td id="blue" rowspan="2" > 5 </td>
      </tr><tr>
        <td id="yellow" rowspan="2" > 6 </td>
        <td id="white"> 7 </td>
      </tr><tr>
        <td id="green" colspan="2" > 8 </td>
      </tr>
    </table>
  </td>
</tr><tr>
 <td id="orange" colspan="2"> 9 </td>
</tr>
</table>

</body>
</html>
Glorfindel
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Diogenes
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  • are you using
    s to get the 2, 3 & 5 characters to appear on separate lines? when I just add them with whitespace to your html they appear on the same line. See http://jsbin.com/acoge
    – Sam Hasler Mar 13 '09 at 14:00
  • Yup - that qualifies as simple markup, right? – Diogenes Mar 13 '09 at 17:52
2

Brevity of markup....

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
<head>
<title>The Challenge</title>
<style type="text/css">
    .garden {
        position: relative;
        width: 175px;
        height: 175px;
        font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', cursive;
        border: 1px solid;
        color: #000;
        }
    .garden div {
        position: absolute;
        width: 35px;
        height: 35px;
        line-height: 35px;
        text-align: center;
        }
    .garden div:first-child {
        width: 140px;
        background: silver;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div {
        right: 0;
        height: 140px;
        line-height: 140px;
        color: #fff;
        background: maroon;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div {
        top: 35px;
        height: 140px;
        line-height: 140px;
        color: #fff;
        background: navy;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div + div {
        top: 35px;
        left: 35px;
        width: 70px;
        background: red;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div + div + div {
        top: 35px;
        right: 35px;
        height: 70px;
        line-height: 70px;
        background: blue;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div + div + div + div {
        top: 70px;
        left: 35px;
        height: 70px;
        line-height: 70px;
        background: yellow;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div + div + div + div + div {
        top: 70px;
        left: 70px;
        background: white;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div + div + div + div + div + div {
        top: 105px;
        left: 70px;
        width: 70px;
        background: green;
        }
    .garden div:first-child + div + div + div + div + div + div + div + div{
        bottom: 0;
        right: 0;
        width: 140px;
        background: orange;
        }

    </style> 
</head> 
<body> 
<div class="garden"> 
<div>1</div> 
<div>2</div> 
<div>3</div> 
<div>4</div> 
<div>5</div> 
<div>6</div> 
<div>7</div>
<div>8</div> 
<div>9</div> 
</div>
</body>
</html>

link

Andy Ford
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1

alt text
(source: sontag.ca)
I first did this exercise a little over 2 years ago when I was first learning HTML and CSS. My first solution was like the one you see here, except without the anonymous container DIVs. Then I got this idea for a web page that did a side by side comparison of CSS to a Table to prove CSS was better. So I worked on The Challenge page, published it, and then posted this question.

Sam Hasler posted an answer within minutes, it seems, that was really close. I could see he was on track for a better solution than what I had. All his divs were in order, and mine were not. Jacco posted a comment asking why I used two nested tables when one would do. He was right too, of course.

So I had two Homer Simpson "Doh!" moments right away. I read other questions and answers on tables vs. CSS. Someone mentioned that tables centered vertically. My answer did not center vertically either, but I thought it might be possible. The whole point, after all, is to do everything a table can do and better. I had painted myself into a corner by now, looking like a fool, so I had to find an answer.

Eventually (am embarrassed to say how long it was) I came up with the solution below. I was then able to fulfill my original concept of a side-by-side comparison web page.

Here is an explanation of how it all works and why you should use CSS

Charlie's answer...


<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
 "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>Charlie's CSS layout</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />
<style type="text/css">

#outer { 
  width:175px; height:175px; 
  text-align:center; 
  font: italic 100%/200% 'Comic Sans MS', cursive;  
  border: 1px solid black;
}
#inner { width: 105px }
#outer>DIV, #inner>DIV { float:left }
#outer>DIV>DIV, #inner>DIV>DIV 
{ display: table-cell;  vertical-align: middle }
#c2 { clear: right }
#c3, #c6 { clear: left }

#c1>DIV, #c4>DIV, #c7>DIV, #c8>DIV, #c9>DIV { height: 35px }
#c2>DIV, #c3>DIV, #c5>DIV, #c6>DIV, #c7>DIV { width:  35px }
#c2>DIV, #c3>DIV { height: 140px } 
#c1>DIV, #c9>DIV { width:  140px } 
#c5>DIV, #c6>DIV { height:  70px } 
#c4>DIV, #c8>DIV { width:   70px } 
#c2, #c6, #c7, #c8, #c9 { position:relative; top:-35px }
#c9 { left: 35px }

#c1 { background-color: silver }
#c2 { background-color: maroon; color: white }
#c3 { background-color: navy; color: white }
#c4 { background-color: red }
#c5 { background-color: blue; color: white }
#c6 { background-color: yellow }
#c7 { background-color: white }
#c8 { background-color: green; color: white }
#c9 { background-color: orange }

/* these rules are a HACK to center vertically in IE7 */
#outer>DIV>DIV, #inner>DIV>DIV { position:relative; }
#c1>DIV, #c4>DIV, #c7>DIV, #c8>DIV, #c9>DIV { top: 10% }
#c5>DIV { top: 0% } 
#c6>DIV { top: 30% }
#c2>DIV { top: 0% }
#c3>DIV { top: 15% }

</style>
</head>
<body>

<div id="outer">
  <div id="c1"><div> 1 </div></div>
  <div id="c3"><div>3<br/>3<br/>3</div></div>
  <div id="inner">
    <div id="c4"><div> 4 </div></div>
    <div id="c5"><div> 5<br/>5 </div></div>
    <div id="c6"><div> 6 </div></div>
    <div id="c7"><div> 7 </div></div>
    <div id="c8"><div> 8 </div></div>
  </div>
  <div id="c2"><div> 2<br/>2<br/>2<br/>2 </div></div>
  <div id="c9"><div> 9 9 9</div></div>
</div>

</body>
</html>
Glorfindel
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Diogenes
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  • kudos for getting vertical-align: middle to work, I tried and failed. – Sam Hasler Mar 14 '09 at 11:55
  • Hmmm, using CSS to declare a DIV to be handled as if it was a table because you do not want to use a table... Feels like chasing your own tail. – Jacco Mar 14 '09 at 13:59
  • 1
    No, I wanted a DIV to center content vertically, a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for. My preference for using tables (or not) has nothing to do a with a need to center something in a box. – Diogenes Mar 14 '09 at 14:21
  • Those hacks for vertical align aren't working for me in IE7. (I'm on vista if that makes a difference) – Sam Hasler Mar 14 '09 at 19:19
  • The IE hacks won't automatically center content as the content changes and to be honest, I have no idea what how they work. If Vista is different, it would not be a big surprise. – Diogenes Mar 15 '09 at 04:31
  • I did a browser shot with IE6 and IE8. IE6 was messed up but IE8 looked good. It looks like IE8 even ignored the IE hack that was in there (though hard to tell from the SS). So the IE8 box model has some major improvements to it. That should make life easier for all of us. – Diogenes Mar 15 '09 at 04:36
  • I see what the problem is, the hacks have to be changed whenever the content does: http://jsbin.com/ogume that's really no better than the solution I posted in the comments to my answer. – Sam Hasler Mar 16 '09 at 11:10
  • Yes, this isn't really doing vertical centering in IE, it is manually positioning it to the center. Diogenes, it doesn't render correctly in IE6 because IE6 doesn't support descendant selectors. – Prestaul Mar 16 '09 at 13:27
  • @Sam - all right, I've removed my 'accepted answer' status (it was bad form to do that, but I had no votes and I could not vote for myself, and that is what I ended up doing. Still learning the ropes here. – Diogenes Mar 17 '09 at 17:40
  • @Sam - so my CSS soultion does not work for IE7, but I think it works for IE8. It seems to work on all other browsers. The Table solutions work on everything. Which begs the question - Are tables really that bad? ;-) – Diogenes Mar 17 '09 at 17:44
  • Minimal action on this question now, even got down voted, so I am once again selecting Charlie's answer as my choice, even though it ain't the best possible. Thanks to all who helped with this! – Diogenes Mar 25 '09 at 07:48
  • @Diogenes, yes it was me that voted for this answer, although that was before I'd realised it didn't do the vertical centering automatically. It's also possible to simplify the markup and css using float right on 2 boxes instead of top:-35px on 5 boxes: http://jsbin.com/upabe/edit – Sam Hasler Mar 25 '09 at 16:22
1

I think we've proved that there's more than one way to do this. The table tag and CSS are both viable options.

Rather than add another way to complete the challenge I'd just like to say that, whether it's easier or harder, simpler or more complex: tables in HTML should be used for displaying tabular data.

  • Tables are made for tabular data.
  • CSS is made for styling/presentation.
Travis
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0

Here is an example that doesn't use absolute positioning, doesn't use table-cell, and is valid in IE6-8, FF, etc.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />

<title>Terrible Ted's Table Layout</title>
<style type="text/css">
#box{border:1px solid #000; width:175px; height:175px; color:navy; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; font-size:13px; font-style:italic; text-align:center;}

div {float:left}

#c1, #c3, #c4, #c7, #c8, #c9{height:35px; line-height:35px}
#c2, #c3{height:140px;line-height:140px}
#c5, #c6{height:70px; line-height:70px}

#c1, #c9{width:140px}
#c2, #c3, #c5, #c6, #c7{width:35px}
#c4, #c8{width:70px}

#c6, #c7 {margin-top:-35px}

#c1{background-color:silver}
#c2{background-color:maroon; float:right}
#c3{background-color:navy}
#c4{background-color:red}
#c5{background-color:blue}
#c6{background-color:yellow}
#c7{background-color:white}
#c8{background-color:green}
#c9{background-color:orange}

</style>
</head>
<body>
<div id="box">
<div id="c1">1</div>
<div id="c2">2</div>
<div id="c3">3</div>
<div id="c4">4</div>
<div id="c5">5</div>
<div id="c6">6</div>
<div id="c7">7</div>
<div id="c8">8</div>
<div id="c9">9</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
pinxi
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